[TEAM] Gathering "testimonials" for marketing purposes

[Pasi Lallinaho]

Hello team,

especially during the #LoveXubuntu campaign we've got quite a bunch of
"thanks" from our users. These include stories about how Xubuntu has
made the users' computing experience better, good arguments for why
Xubuntu is the best OS for them (and potentially others) etc.

Currently, we are officially only gathering submissions for the
#LoveXubuntu contest, but some of these mails has left me thinking we
could gather some of these "testimonials" for potential marketing
purposes in the future. Use cases that I can imagine from the top of my
head include the Xubuntu flyer, our website and more.

My proposal (in a very early idea stage) is that in addition to specific
contest and campaigns, we could use the Xubuntu-contacts mailing list
for gathering these "testimonials" and thanks. This would need some kind
of organization:

1) Create a page that describes what we are looking, with instructions
(see further points)

2) Require the submissions to have a certain tag at the beginning of the
subject
This helps us when we seek for any content in the mailing list archive.

3) Require the submitter to agree that we can use their content however
we want (either by licensing, or a generic permission)
We likely need the users to send this approval with their submission on
the mailing list. To do this, we can instruct them to specify which
license they want to use, or use any kind of general permission text. At
this point, I would say we shouldn't approve content which license or
terms isn't specified (clearly enough) on the mail.

What do you think?


At the same time, I want to remind that anybody in the team who wishes
to read the mailing list archive can simply ask to get subscribed. The
list has been very light in traffic so far, so no extra hands are
required for moderation at this point.

Cheers,
Pasi
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/

[Sean Davis]

This sounds like a good idea to me. If there's any way we can simplify the
process (copy and paste template, online submission form, etc) I feel like
that would improve the quality and quantity of submissions.

Post by Pasi Lallinaho
Hello team,
especially during the #LoveXubuntu campaign we've got quite a bunch of
"thanks" from our users. These include stories about how Xubuntu has
made the users' computing experience better, good arguments for why
Xubuntu is the best OS for them (and potentially others) etc.
Currently, we are officially only gathering submissions for the
#LoveXubuntu contest, but some of these mails has left me thinking we
could gather some of these "testimonials" for potential marketing
purposes in the future. Use cases that I can imagine from the top of my
head include the Xubuntu flyer, our website and more.
My proposal (in a very early idea stage) is that in addition to specific
contest and campaigns, we could use the Xubuntu-contacts mailing list
for gathering these "testimonials" and thanks. This would need some kind
1) Create a page that describes what we are looking, with instructions
(see further points)
2) Require the submissions to have a certain tag at the beginning of the
subject
This helps us when we seek for any content in the mailing list archive.
3) Require the submitter to agree that we can use their content however
we want (either by licensing, or a generic permission)
We likely need the users to send this approval with their submission on
the mailing list. To do this, we can instruct them to specify which
license they want to use, or use any kind of general permission text. At
this point, I would say we shouldn't approve content which license or
terms isn't specified (clearly enough) on the mail.
What do you think?
At the same time, I want to remind that anybody in the team who wishes
to read the mailing list archive can simply ask to get subscribed. The
list has been very light in traffic so far, so no extra hands are
required for moderation at this point.
Cheers,
Pasi
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

[Pasi Lallinaho]

Note: Top-posting reverted.

Comments at the end of the message.

Post by Pasi Lallinaho
Hello team,
especially during the #LoveXubuntu campaign we've got quite a bunch of
"thanks" from our users. These include stories about how Xubuntu has
made the users' computing experience better, good arguments for why
Xubuntu is the best OS for them (and potentially others) etc.
Currently, we are officially only gathering submissions for the
#LoveXubuntu contest, but some of these mails has left me thinking we
could gather some of these "testimonials" for potential marketing
purposes in the future. Use cases that I can imagine from the top of my
head include the Xubuntu flyer, our website and more.
My proposal (in a very early idea stage) is that in addition to specific
contest and campaigns, we could use the Xubuntu-contacts mailing list
for gathering these "testimonials" and thanks. This would need some kind
1) Create a page that describes what we are looking, with instructions
(see further points)
2) Require the submissions to have a certain tag at the beginning of the
subject
This helps us when we seek for any content in the mailing list archive.
3) Require the submitter to agree that we can use their content however
we want (either by licensing, or a generic permission)
We likely need the users to send this approval with their
submission on
the mailing list. To do this, we can instruct them to specify which
license they want to use, or use any kind of general permission text. At
this point, I would say we shouldn't approve content which license or
terms isn't specified (clearly enough) on the mail.
What do you think?
At the same time, I want to remind that anybody in the team who wishes
to read the mailing list archive can simply ask to get subscribed. The
list has been very light in traffic so far, so no extra hands are
required for moderation at this point.
Cheers,
Pasi
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
This sounds like a good idea to me. If there's any way we can simplify
the process (copy and paste template, online submission form, etc) I
feel like that would improve the quality and quantity of submissions.

Right, I didn't think it this way at all (but read on).

My intention was to simply make sure we save the "natural" thanks we are
getting from people. For this, maybe the better way was to reply to the
sender (and CC the -contacts list) and simply ask them if we can use
their submission if we need it for marketing.

If we want to gather these in a more active way, then sure, we can
organize that as well. The reason why I wasn't thinking this is that
while there are use cases for these testimonials, we haven't planned
using them anywhere. Asking for them and then letting them sit for years
doesn't sound very nice...

Anyway, thanks for the feedback!

Cheers,
Pasi

[michael meelis]

Hi,

For what is worth, that is what I have been going (as a lead) for 5
years full time with http://www.freshbook.nl/faq/
(check with google translate Dutch-English (or your language))
(Note: Site design is now also 5 years old. Also click through to
youtube for timestamps).

I can tell you the whole case from:
* First Windows user found the UI too ugly, so we make Xubuntu look
really cool
* Than we had to make videos to show how cool it is (seeing is
believing).
* Than we made a teaching video of 3 hours (production took one whole
year). Youtube kept on flagging it with violation on public domain
stuff. Even with videos that where uploaded much later. That *we*
were as violation their content that they had ripped from us!!! (GO
FIGURE)
* Than we had 10 (+1) professional cartoons made to point out Windows
Annoyances. See:

or
The +1 video is:

* Than we had to make a cool website because ppl believe more what they
*read* than what they see with their *own* eyes. Weird but true.
* Than we organised events all over the country (NL) where ppl could try
it out on their own computer. Help them upgrade and transition.
* Than we took each weekend a stand at a different summer fair. To show
it to ppl that where not looking for it.
* Than we recruited supporters to go out an do it.

In the whole process we spent a *lot* of money on 3rd parties, salaries,
PR, advertisement, flyers, marketing, etc, etc.

Summer of 5 years work: we converted no one!!! Let that sink in!!
Near no one! Only ppl who where already convinced we have helped with
the transition. The conversion rate of near 0% is is statistically
significant. We have have written it of as some sort of Mind Control to
keep ppl in the dominant systems. To check this theory we retested it
with Andriod users with slow smartphones. Same results.

So do what you have to do but expect nothing.


Hope this feedback helps,
Michael
-------

Op Fri, 5 Aug 2016 19:29:26 +0300

Post by Pasi Lallinaho
Note: Top-posting reverted.
Comments at the end of the message.

Post by Pasi Lallinaho
Hello team,
especially during the #LoveXubuntu campaign we've got quite a
bunch of "thanks" from our users. These include stories about how
Xubuntu has made the users' computing experience better, good
arguments for why Xubuntu is the best OS for them (and potentially
others) etc.
Currently, we are officially only gathering submissions for the
#LoveXubuntu contest, but some of these mails has left me
thinking we could gather some of these "testimonials" for potential
marketing purposes in the future. Use cases that I can imagine from
the top of my
head include the Xubuntu flyer, our website and more.
My proposal (in a very early idea stage) is that in addition to specific
contest and campaigns, we could use the Xubuntu-contacts
mailing list for gathering these "testimonials" and thanks. This
would need some kind
1) Create a page that describes what we are looking, with
instructions (see further points)
2) Require the submissions to have a certain tag at the
beginning of the
subject
This helps us when we seek for any content in the mailing list archive.
3) Require the submitter to agree that we can use their content however
we want (either by licensing, or a generic permission)
We likely need the users to send this approval with their submission on
the mailing list. To do this, we can instruct them to specify
which license they want to use, or use any kind of general
permission text. At
this point, I would say we shouldn't approve content which
license or terms isn't specified (clearly enough) on the mail.
What do you think?
At the same time, I want to remind that anybody in the team who
wishes to read the mailing list archive can simply ask to get
subscribed. The list has been very light in traffic so far, so no
extra hands are required for moderation at this point.
Cheers,
Pasi
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
This sounds like a good idea to me. If there's any way we can
simplify the process (copy and paste template, online submission
form, etc) I feel like that would improve the quality and quantity
of submissions.

Right, I didn't think it this way at all (but read on).
My intention was to simply make sure we save the "natural" thanks we
are getting from people. For this, maybe the better way was to reply
to the sender (and CC the -contacts list) and simply ask them if we
can use their submission if we need it for marketing.
If we want to gather these in a more active way, then sure, we can
organize that as well. The reason why I wasn't thinking this is that
while there are use cases for these testimonials, we haven't planned
using them anywhere. Asking for them and then letting them sit for
years doesn't sound very nice...
Anyway, thanks for the feedback!
Cheers,
Pasi

[Pasi Lallinaho]

Hello Michael,

I'm not sure how this relates to what the Xubuntu team is planning to do.

This is mostly for the reason that Xubuntu is a completely
community-driven project and no money is put into the marketing. For
this reason, the marketing tends to be more on the passive than active
side. This means that we do not really do the kind of outreach you are
describing.

On the subject of converting, I don't think anybody in the team is
working on Xubuntu because they feel the need to convert everybody into
Linux. At least my personal main motive isn't to try to convert people
to Xubuntu, but to make Xubuntu better for myself and thus for the
others as well.

That said (but while we have absolutely no statistics on the subject,
specifically as we don't do active marketing), I know that a lot of
people have converted from other (non-Linux) operating systems to Xubuntu.

Finally, the proposal I made was simply to gather testimonials and
thanks that come to us naturally, not actively going looking for it either.

Rather than being negative and sceptic about the power of marketing, I'd
like us to celebrate what we love about Xubuntu. We can't ever please
everybody, so it is better stick to what we think is the right way to go
and people will follow.

Cheers,
Pasi

Post by michael meelis
Hi,
For what is worth, that is what I have been going (as a lead) for 5
years full time withhttp://www.freshbook.nl/faq/
(check with google translate Dutch-English (or your language))
(Note: Site design is now also 5 years old. Also click through to
youtube for timestamps).
* First Windows user found the UI too ugly, so we make Xubuntu look
really cool
* Than we had to make videos to show how cool it is (seeing is
believing).
* Than we made a teaching video of 3 hours (production took one whole
year). Youtube kept on flagging it with violation on public domain
stuff. Even with videos that where uploaded much later. That*we*
were as violation their content that they had ripped from us!!! (GO
FIGURE)
* Than we had 10 (+1) professional cartoons made to point out Windows
Annoyances. http://youtu.be/8zAQwetfXvw or
The +1 video http://youtu.be/7NShpY_oSs4
* Than we had to make a cool website because ppl believe more what they
*read* than what they see with their*own* eyes. Weird but true.
* Than we organised events all over the country (NL) where ppl could try
it out on their own computer. Help them upgrade and transition.
* Than we took each weekend a stand at a different summer fair. To show
it to ppl that where not looking for it.
* Than we recruited supporters to go out an do it.
In the whole process we spent a*lot* of money on 3rd parties, salaries,
PR, advertisement, flyers, marketing, etc, etc.
Summer of 5 years work: we converted no one!!! Let that sink in!!
Near no one! Only ppl who where already convinced we have helped with
the transition. The conversion rate of near 0% is is statistically
significant. We have have written it of as some sort of Mind Control to
keep ppl in the dominant systems. To check this theory we retested it
with Andriod users with slow smartphones. Same results.
So do what you have to do but expect nothing.
Hope this feedback helps,
Michael

[PK]

In my experience, marketing-wise, Xubuntu is an excellent *aftermarket*
product.

People first start out with the Ubuntu or Linux Mint they've heard about,
find out that performance on older hardware is a bit disappointing, and
start looking for lightweight replacements. Then they find Xubuntu:
lightweight, yet slick and user-friendly enough to be a complete
alternative.

Make no mistakes: the aftermarket is a very big market! Xubuntu is already
a big player there, and likely to remain so. The various Ubuntu fora are
full of testimonials of people who are happy with Xubuntu, or who advise
others to start using Xubuntu on some older machine.

I have one suggestion to make: the perceived quality of the "brand" Xubuntu
can perhaps be improved when the only codebase is Ubuntu LTS and its point
releases. So no more short-lived intermediate releases. Comparable with the
release policy that Linux Mint has adopted in 2014.

Keep up the good work! I's being appreciated by more people than you might
realize. :-)

Regards, Pjotr.

Post by Pasi Lallinaho
Hello Michael,
I'm not sure how this relates to what the Xubuntu team is planning to do.
This is mostly for the reason that Xubuntu is a completely
community-driven project and no money is put into the marketing. For this
reason, the marketing tends to be more on the passive than active side.
This means that we do not really do the kind of outreach you are describing.
On the subject of converting, I don't think anybody in the team is working
on Xubuntu because they feel the need to convert everybody into Linux. At
least my personal main motive isn't to try to convert people to Xubuntu,
but to make Xubuntu better for myself and thus for the others as well.
That said (but while we have absolutely no statistics on the subject,
specifically as we don't do active marketing), I know that a lot of people
have converted from other (non-Linux) operating systems to Xubuntu.
Finally, the proposal I made was simply to gather testimonials and thanks
that come to us naturally, not actively going looking for it either.
Rather than being negative and sceptic about the power of marketing, I'd
like us to celebrate what we love about Xubuntu. We can't ever please
everybody, so it is better stick to what we think is the right way to go
and people will follow.
Cheers,
Pasi
Hi,
For what is worth, that is what I have been going (as a lead) for 5
years full time with http://www.freshbook.nl/faq/
(check with google translate Dutch-English (or your language))
(Note: Site design is now also 5 years old. Also click through to
youtube for timestamps).
* First Windows user found the UI too ugly, so we make Xubuntu look
really cool
* Than we had to make videos to show how cool it is (seeing is
believing).
* Than we made a teaching video of 3 hours (production took one whole
year). Youtube kept on flagging it with violation on public domain
stuff. Even with videos that where uploaded much later. That **we**
were as violation their content that they had ripped from us!!! (GO
FIGURE)
* Than we had 10 (+1) professional cartoons made to point out Windows
Annoyances. See: http://youtu.be/8zAQwetfXvw or
The +1 video is: http://youtu.be/7NShpY_oSs4
* Than we had to make a cool website because ppl believe more what they
**read** than what they see with their **own** eyes. Weird but true.
* Than we organised events all over the country (NL) where ppl could try
it out on their own computer. Help them upgrade and transition.
* Than we took each weekend a stand at a different summer fair. To show
it to ppl that where not looking for it.
* Than we recruited supporters to go out an do it.
In the whole process we spent a **lot** of money on 3rd parties, salaries,
PR, advertisement, flyers, marketing, etc, etc.
Summer of 5 years work: we converted no one!!! Let that sink in!!
Near no one! Only ppl who where already convinced we have helped with
the transition. The conversion rate of near 0% is is statistically
significant. We have have written it of as some sort of Mind Control to
keep ppl in the dominant systems. To check this theory we retested it
with Andriod users with slow smartphones. Same results.
So do what you have to do but expect nothing.
Hope this feedback helps,
Michael
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

[Willem Hobers]

The aftermarket route is certainly the route I've taken, for the reasons
Pjotr described, and I would indeed prefer the LTS-only-release cycle.

Seems Pjotr read my mind just now. :-)

Xeep going strong. ;-) thanks for all the work.

W

Post by PK
In my experience, marketing-wise, Xubuntu is an excellent *aftermarket*
product.
People first start out with the Ubuntu or Linux Mint they've heard about,
find out that performance on older hardware is a bit disappointing, and
lightweight, yet slick and user-friendly enough to be a complete
alternative.
Make no mistakes: the aftermarket is a very big market! Xubuntu is already
a big player there, and likely to remain so. The various Ubuntu fora are
full of testimonials of people who are happy with Xubuntu, or who advise
others to start using Xubuntu on some older machine.
I have one suggestion to make: the perceived quality of the "brand"
Xubuntu can perhaps be improved when the only codebase is Ubuntu LTS and
its point releases. So no more short-lived intermediate releases.
Comparable with the release policy that Linux Mint has adopted in 2014.
Keep up the good work! I's being appreciated by more people than you might
realize. :-)
Regards, Pjotr.

Post by Pasi Lallinaho
Hello Michael,
I'm not sure how this relates to what the Xubuntu team is planning to do.
This is mostly for the reason that Xubuntu is a completely
community-driven project and no money is put into the marketing. For this
reason, the marketing tends to be more on the passive than active side.
This means that we do not really do the kind of outreach you are describing.
On the subject of converting, I don't think anybody in the team is
working on Xubuntu because they feel the need to convert everybody into
Linux. At least my personal main motive isn't to try to convert people to
Xubuntu, but to make Xubuntu better for myself and thus for the others as
well.
That said (but while we have absolutely no statistics on the subject,
specifically as we don't do active marketing), I know that a lot of people
have converted from other (non-Linux) operating systems to Xubuntu.
Finally, the proposal I made was simply to gather testimonials and thanks
that come to us naturally, not actively going looking for it either.
Rather than being negative and sceptic about the power of marketing, I'd
like us to celebrate what we love about Xubuntu. We can't ever please
everybody, so it is better stick to what we think is the right way to go
and people will follow.
Cheers,
Pasi
Hi,
For what is worth, that is what I have been going (as a lead) for 5
years full time with http://www.freshbook.nl/faq/
(check with google translate Dutch-English (or your language))
(Note: Site design is now also 5 years old. Also click through to
youtube for timestamps).
* First Windows user found the UI too ugly, so we make Xubuntu look
really cool
* Than we had to make videos to show how cool it is (seeing is
believing).
* Than we made a teaching video of 3 hours (production took one whole
year). Youtube kept on flagging it with violation on public domain
stuff. Even with videos that where uploaded much later. That **we**
were as violation their content that they had ripped from us!!! (GO
FIGURE)
* Than we had 10 (+1) professional cartoons made to point out Windows
Annoyances. See: http://youtu.be/8zAQwetfXvw or
The +1 video is: http://youtu.be/7NShpY_oSs4
* Than we had to make a cool website because ppl believe more what they
**read** than what they see with their **own** eyes. Weird but true.
* Than we organised events all over the country (NL) where ppl could try
it out on their own computer. Help them upgrade and transition.
* Than we took each weekend a stand at a different summer fair. To show
it to ppl that where not looking for it.
* Than we recruited supporters to go out an do it.
In the whole process we spent a **lot** of money on 3rd parties, salaries,
PR, advertisement, flyers, marketing, etc, etc.
Summer of 5 years work: we converted no one!!! Let that sink in!!
Near no one! Only ppl who where already convinced we have helped with
the transition. The conversion rate of near 0% is is statistically
significant. We have have written it of as some sort of Mind Control to
keep ppl in the dominant systems. To check this theory we retested it
with Andriod users with slow smartphones. Same results.
So do what you have to do but expect nothing.
Hope this feedback helps,
Michael
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

[JMZ]

I don't mind a Xubuntu LTS-only policy so long as a few other Ubuntu
flavors maintain intermediate releases. Have other Ubuntu flavors
discussed going to LTS only? With intermediate releases, it's possible
to mix and match different ppa's to create hybrid systems.

For example: I download newer kernels at a faster pace than 16.04 LTS
through the canonical-kernel-team ppa. I've set this ppa to yakkety.
I'm at 4.6.x now versus 4.4.x. I prefer downloading kernels ahead of
the curve. I don't mind having to fix a few minor faults now and then to
maintain a more advanced kernel system.

I've always thought that LTS was for users who prefer stability over
experimentation. Experimenters like myself do exist, however. Perhaps
Xubuntu is not right for me because most Xubuntu users would be better
served by LTS only. Perhaps it is time for an experimenter's xfce
environment to leave the Canonical suite and become its own distribution.

Jordan

<snip>
I have one suggestion to make: the perceived quality of the "brand"
Xubuntu can perhaps be improved when the only codebase is Ubuntu LTS
and its point releases. So no more short-lived intermediate releases.
Comparable with the release policy that Linux Mint has adopted in 2014.
Keep up the good work! I's being appreciated by more people than you
might realize. :-)
Regards, Pjotr.

<snip>

[flocculant]

Post by JMZ
I don't mind a Xubuntu LTS-only policy so long as a few other Ubuntu
flavors maintain intermediate releases. Have other Ubuntu flavors
discussed going to LTS only? With intermediate releases, it's
possible to mix and match different ppa's to create hybrid systems.

Even 'if' there was an LTS-only policy then there will always be a
development version.

No-one is going to sit back and then suddenly in 2 years wake up, get
together, test *stuff*, hope that people test it (which is about where
we are - people don't) then suddenly be in a position to release something.

Post by JMZ
For example: I download newer kernels at a faster pace than 16.04 LTS
through the canonical-kernel-team ppa. I've set this ppa to yakkety.
I'm at 4.6.x now versus 4.4.x. I prefer downloading kernels ahead of
the curve. I don't mind having to fix a few minor faults now and then
to maintain a more advanced kernel system.

I grab kernel's from -proposed, I do no more than what's just around the
corner.

Post by JMZ
I've always thought that LTS was for users who prefer stability over
experimentation. Experimenters like myself do exist, however.
Perhaps Xubuntu is not right for me because most Xubuntu users would
be better served by LTS only. Perhaps it is time for an
experimenter's xfce environment to leave the Canonical suite and
become its own distribution.

LTS is for those users.

Experimenters can join in the dev version almost as soon as the latest
release releases.

Post by JMZ
Jordan

<snip>
I have one suggestion to make: the perceived quality of the "brand"
Xubuntu can perhaps be improved when the only codebase is Ubuntu LTS
and its point releases. So no more short-lived intermediate releases.
Comparable with the release policy that Linux Mint has adopted in 2014.
Keep up the good work! I's being appreciated by more people than you
might realize. :-)
Regards, Pjotr.

<snip>

[flocculant]

It's also worth noting that you can do the LTS->LTS upgrades only;
nobody is forcing you to upgrade to regular releases between.

Also getting back on-topic, please note that this thread IS NOT the
thread for "testimonials"; this is discussion to plan how/where to
collect them. If we set up anything like that, we will let you all know
at that point. In other words, while it's nice to hear that you all like
Xubuntu, and your success stories with it, and while we're not stopping
you from sending them on this list, the stories here aren't considered
as marketing material.

Cheers,
Pasi

Post by JMZ
I don't mind a Xubuntu LTS-only policy so long as a few other Ubuntu
flavors maintain intermediate releases. Have other Ubuntu flavors
discussed going to LTS only? With intermediate releases, it's
possible to mix and match different ppa's to create hybrid systems.

Even 'if' there was an LTS-only policy then there will always be a
development version.

No-one is going to sit back and then suddenly in 2 years wake up, get
together, test *stuff*, hope that people test it (which is about where
we are - people don't) then suddenly be in a position to release something.

Post by JMZ
For example: I download newer kernels at a faster pace than 16.04 LTS
through the canonical-kernel-team ppa. I've set this ppa to yakkety.
I'm at 4.6.x now versus 4.4.x. I prefer downloading kernels ahead of
the curve. I don't mind having to fix a few minor faults now and then
to maintain a more advanced kernel system.

I grab kernel's from -proposed, I do no more than what's just around the
corner.

Post by JMZ
I've always thought that LTS was for users who prefer stability over
experimentation. Experimenters like myself do exist, however.
Perhaps Xubuntu is not right for me because most Xubuntu users would
be better served by LTS only. Perhaps it is time for an
experimenter's xfce environment to leave the Canonical suite and
become its own distribution.

LTS is for those users.

Experimenters can join in the dev version almost as soon as the latest
release releases.

Post by JMZ
Jordan

<snip>
I have one suggestion to make: the perceived quality of the "brand"
Xubuntu can perhaps be improved when the only codebase is Ubuntu LTS
and its point releases. So no more short-lived intermediate releases.
Comparable with the release policy that Linux Mint has adopted in 2014.
Keep up the good work! I's being appreciated by more people than you
might realize. :-)
Regards, Pjotr.

<snip>

[JMZ]

Pardon my confusion, but why market something that's not for sale?

I've been using desktop Linux for quite some time, and I would never,
ever return to Windows for personal use (I fix MS machines frequently
though). I love the amazing flexibility of bash, and the open platform
for xfce among other environments.

Desktop Linux has a low single digit adoption rate because the vast
majority of critical system functions can't be performed from within the
gui. If someone is unwilling to use bash or another shell, he or she
will probably get frustrated and go to Windows or OSX. The cli is
holding Linux back from wider adoption, but there's no way around
learning and using commands.

Jordan

Post by Sean Davis
This sounds like a good idea to me. If there's any way we can simplify
the process (copy and paste template, online submission form, etc) I
feel like that would improve the quality and quantity of submissions.
Hello team,
especially during the #LoveXubuntu campaign we've got quite a bunch of
"thanks" from our users. These include stories about how Xubuntu has
made the users' computing experience better, good arguments for why
Xubuntu is the best OS for them (and potentially others) etc.
Currently, we are officially only gathering submissions for the
#LoveXubuntu contest, but some of these mails has left me thinking we
could gather some of these "testimonials" for potential marketing
purposes in the future. Use cases that I can imagine from the top of my
head include the Xubuntu flyer, our website and more.
My proposal (in a very early idea stage) is that in addition to specific
contest and campaigns, we could use the Xubuntu-contacts mailing list
for gathering these "testimonials" and thanks. This would need some kind
1) Create a page that describes what we are looking, with instructions
(see further points)
2) Require the submissions to have a certain tag at the beginning of the
subject
This helps us when we seek for any content in the mailing list archive.
3) Require the submitter to agree that we can use their content however
we want (either by licensing, or a generic permission)
We likely need the users to send this approval with their
submission on
the mailing list. To do this, we can instruct them to specify which
license they want to use, or use any kind of general permission text. At
this point, I would say we shouldn't approve content which license or
terms isn't specified (clearly enough) on the mail.
What do you think?
At the same time, I want to remind that anybody in the team who wishes
to read the mailing list archive can simply ask to get subscribed. The
list has been very light in traffic so far, so no extra hands are
required for moderation at this point.
Cheers,
Pasi
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

[Pasi Lallinaho]

If you look at it from the other side of the coin, why create something
that you don't want to spread to as many people as possible?

Cheers,
Pasi

Post by JMZ
Pardon my confusion, but why market something that's not for sale?
I've been using desktop Linux for quite some time, and I would never,
ever return to Windows for personal use (I fix MS machines frequently
though). I love the amazing flexibility of bash, and the open
platform for xfce among other environments.
Desktop Linux has a low single digit adoption rate because the vast
majority of critical system functions can't be performed from within
the gui. If someone is unwilling to use bash or another shell, he or
she will probably get frustrated and go to Windows or OSX. The cli is
holding Linux back from wider adoption, but there's no way around
learning and using commands.
Jordan

Post by Sean Davis
This sounds like a good idea to me. If there's any way we can
simplify the process (copy and paste template, online submission
form, etc) I feel like that would improve the quality and quantity of
submissions.
Hello team,
especially during the #LoveXubuntu campaign we've got quite a bunch of
"thanks" from our users. These include stories about how Xubuntu has
made the users' computing experience better, good arguments for why
Xubuntu is the best OS for them (and potentially others) etc.
Currently, we are officially only gathering submissions for the
#LoveXubuntu contest, but some of these mails has left me thinking we
could gather some of these "testimonials" for potential marketing
purposes in the future. Use cases that I can imagine from the top of my
head include the Xubuntu flyer, our website and more.
My proposal (in a very early idea stage) is that in addition to specific
contest and campaigns, we could use the Xubuntu-contacts mailing list
for gathering these "testimonials" and thanks. This would need some kind
1) Create a page that describes what we are looking, with
instructions
(see further points)
2) Require the submissions to have a certain tag at the beginning of the
subject
This helps us when we seek for any content in the mailing list archive.
3) Require the submitter to agree that we can use their content however
we want (either by licensing, or a generic permission)
We likely need the users to send this approval with their
submission on
the mailing list. To do this, we can instruct them to specify which
license they want to use, or use any kind of general permission text. At
this point, I would say we shouldn't approve content which license or
terms isn't specified (clearly enough) on the mail.
What do you think?
At the same time, I want to remind that anybody in the team who wishes
to read the mailing list archive can simply ask to get
subscribed. The
list has been very light in traffic so far, so no extra hands are
required for moderation at this point.
Cheers,
Pasi
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

[JMZ]

Hi Pasi,

I apologize for the rather pessimistic tone of my original post. Despite
all my evangelization efforts over the years, no person I know has
"stuck with it" and become an avid Linux user. You are right. Sow the
seeds of Linux widely. Who knows where it will bloom?

Good luck with the campaign, Jordan

Post by Pasi Lallinaho
If you look at it from the other side of the coin, why create
something that you don't want to spread to as many people as possible?
Cheers,
Pasi

Post by JMZ
Pardon my confusion, but why market something that's not for sale?
I've been using desktop Linux for quite some time, and I would never,
ever return to Windows for personal use (I fix MS machines frequently
though). I love the amazing flexibility of bash, and the open
platform for xfce among other environments.
Desktop Linux has a low single digit adoption rate because the vast
majority of critical system functions can't be performed from within
the gui. If someone is unwilling to use bash or another shell, he or
she will probably get frustrated and go to Windows or OSX. The cli
is holding Linux back from wider adoption, but there's no way around
learning and using commands.
Jordan

Post by Sean Davis
This sounds like a good idea to me. If there's any way we can
simplify the process (copy and paste template, online submission
form, etc) I feel like that would improve the quality and quantity
of submissions.
Hello team,
especially during the #LoveXubuntu campaign we've got quite a bunch of
"thanks" from our users. These include stories about how Xubuntu has
made the users' computing experience better, good arguments for why
Xubuntu is the best OS for them (and potentially others) etc.
Currently, we are officially only gathering submissions for the
#LoveXubuntu contest, but some of these mails has left me thinking we
could gather some of these "testimonials" for potential marketing
purposes in the future. Use cases that I can imagine from the top of my
head include the Xubuntu flyer, our website and more.
My proposal (in a very early idea stage) is that in addition to specific
contest and campaigns, we could use the Xubuntu-contacts mailing list
for gathering these "testimonials" and thanks. This would need some kind
1) Create a page that describes what we are looking, with instructions
(see further points)
2) Require the submissions to have a certain tag at the
beginning of the
subject
This helps us when we seek for any content in the mailing list archive.
3) Require the submitter to agree that we can use their content however
we want (either by licensing, or a generic permission)
We likely need the users to send this approval with their submission on
the mailing list. To do this, we can instruct them to specify which
license they want to use, or use any kind of general permission text. At
this point, I would say we shouldn't approve content which license or
terms isn't specified (clearly enough) on the mail.
What do you think?
At the same time, I want to remind that anybody in the team who wishes
to read the mailing list archive can simply ask to get
subscribed. The
list has been very light in traffic so far, so no extra hands are
required for moderation at this point.
Cheers,
Pasi
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) ›http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project ›http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead ›http://xubuntu.org/

[Rudi Servo]

Hello,

Actually not a bad idea and I see what Pasi is trying to do.

Get the word out by social media so people will gather around and see
what really happening with Xubuntu and it is not just another distro.
It's important for people, not only who is looking for Distro, but
specially for the community to rally itself and see who uses it and why.


For open source development, there is nothing better then a Nix distro
and thats where I think Xubuntu excels at, lightweight poweruser distro.

So a bit of social marketing wont hurt it will actually get more people
interested in.


Gratz for the Distro, keep it up.

Post by JMZ
Hi Pasi,
I apologize for the rather pessimistic tone of my original post.
Despite all my evangelization efforts over the years, no person I know
has "stuck with it" and become an avid Linux user. You are right. Sow
the seeds of Linux widely. Who knows where it will bloom?
Good luck with the campaign, Jordan

Post by Pasi Lallinaho
If you look at it from the other side of the coin, why create
something that you don't want to spread to as many people as possible?
Cheers,
Pasi

Post by JMZ
Pardon my confusion, but why market something that's not for sale?
I've been using desktop Linux for quite some time, and I would
never, ever return to Windows for personal use (I fix MS machines
frequently though). I love the amazing flexibility of bash, and the
open platform for xfce among other environments.
Desktop Linux has a low single digit adoption rate because the vast
majority of critical system functions can't be performed from within
the gui. If someone is unwilling to use bash or another shell, he
or she will probably get frustrated and go to Windows or OSX. The
cli is holding Linux back from wider adoption, but there's no way
around learning and using commands.
Jordan

Post by Sean Davis
This sounds like a good idea to me. If there's any way we can
simplify the process (copy and paste template, online submission
form, etc) I feel like that would improve the quality and quantity
of submissions.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016, 5:24 PM Pasi Lallinaho
Hello team,
especially during the #LoveXubuntu campaign we've got quite a bunch of
"thanks" from our users. These include stories about how Xubuntu has
made the users' computing experience better, good arguments for why
Xubuntu is the best OS for them (and potentially others) etc.
Currently, we are officially only gathering submissions for the
#LoveXubuntu contest, but some of these mails has left me thinking we
could gather some of these "testimonials" for potential marketing
purposes in the future. Use cases that I can imagine from the top of my
head include the Xubuntu flyer, our website and more.
My proposal (in a very early idea stage) is that in addition to specific
contest and campaigns, we could use the Xubuntu-contacts mailing list
for gathering these "testimonials" and thanks. This would need some kind
1) Create a page that describes what we are looking, with instructions
(see further points)
2) Require the submissions to have a certain tag at the
beginning of the
subject
This helps us when we seek for any content in the mailing list archive.
3) Require the submitter to agree that we can use their content however
we want (either by licensing, or a generic permission)
We likely need the users to send this approval with their submission on
the mailing list. To do this, we can instruct them to specify which
license they want to use, or use any kind of general permission text. At
this point, I would say we shouldn't approve content which license or
terms isn't specified (clearly enough) on the mail.
What do you think?
At the same time, I want to remind that anybody in the team who wishes
to read the mailing list archive can simply ask to get
subscribed. The
list has been very light in traffic so far, so no extra hands are
required for moderation at this point.
Cheers,
Pasi
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
--
xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) ›http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project ›http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead ›http://xubuntu.org/

[Paul Sutton]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi

I am not sure how useful the following is:

( Acknolwedge that Linux should be written as GNU/Linux btw )

I run the Torbay Tech jam, we were donated about 25 netbooks HP110
and 210 models, I am in the slow process of installing Xubuntu 16.04
on to these.

1. Upon installation, all the hardware works nicely out of the box
2. The system runs at a nice speed and does not generally appear sluggis
h
3. Xubuntu is ideal as a lightweight Linux based distro for this purpose
4. Xubuntu and Arduino IDE / Hardware seem to play much nicer together
than my desktop Mint 17.3 desktop, (there are too many factors at play
here to make a proper assessment, suffice to say it seems to work better
)

End of this process we will be lookng at about 15 - 20 netbooks
running xubuntu (or at least that initially, the tech jam will be
about allowing people to experiment with things. the tech jam also
has 6 laptops on which 4 i am intending to put xubuntu to replace the
current linux system with something more up to date

To comment on what is below about sticking with Linux systems my
desktop is 100percent Linux, as is my netbook and 2nd netbook which
runs xubuntu, the other hardware runs Mint.

This has been the case for several years, my dads laptop is dualboot
Linuxmint and windows 10 (upgraded from 7) Windows to me just runs badly
.

Hope these comments help

Paul

Post by Rudi Servo
Hello,
Actually not a bad idea and I see what Pasi is trying to do.
Get the word out by social media so people will gather around and
see what really happening with Xubuntu and it is not just another
distro. It's important for people, not only who is looking for
Distro, but specially for the community to rally itself and see who
uses it and why.
For open source development, there is nothing better then a Nix
distro and thats where I think Xubuntu excels at, lightweight
poweruser distro.
So a bit of social marketing wont hurt it will actually get more
people interested in.
Gratz for the Distro, keep it up.

Post by JMZ
Hi Pasi,
I apologize for the rather pessimistic tone of my original post.
Despite all my evangelization efforts over the years, no person
I know has "stuck with it" and become an avid Linux user. You
are right. Sow the seeds of Linux widely. Who knows where it
will bloom?
Good luck with the campaign, Jordan

Post by Pasi Lallinaho
If you look at it from the other side of the coin, why create
something that you don't want to spread to as many people as
possible?
Cheers, Pasi

Post by JMZ
Pardon my confusion, but why market something that's not for sale?
I've been using desktop Linux for quite some time, and I
would never, ever return to Windows for personal use (I fix
MS machines frequently though). I love the amazing
flexibility of bash, and the open platform for xfce among
other environments.
Desktop Linux has a low single digit adoption rate because
the vast majority of critical system functions can't be
performed from within the gui. If someone is unwilling to
use bash or another shell, he or she will probably get
frustrated and go to Windows or OSX. The cli is holding
Linux back from wider adoption, but there's no way around
learning and using commands.
Jordan

Post by Sean Davis
This sounds like a good idea to me. If there's any way we
can simplify the process (copy and paste template, online
submission form, etc) I feel like that would improve the
quality and quantity of submissions.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016, 5:24 PM Pasi Lallinaho
Hello team,
especially during the #LoveXubuntu campaign we've got quite
a bunch of "thanks" from our users. These include stories
about how Xubuntu has made the users' computing experience
better, good arguments for why Xubuntu is the best OS for
them (and potentially others) etc.
Currently, we are officially only gathering submissions for
the #LoveXubuntu contest, but some of these mails has left
me thinking we could gather some of these "testimonials"
for potential marketing purposes in the future. Use cases
that I can imagine from the top of my head include the
Xubuntu flyer, our website and more.
My proposal (in a very early idea stage) is that in
addition to specific contest and campaigns, we could use
the Xubuntu-contacts mailing list for gathering these
"testimonials" and thanks. This would need some kind of
1) Create a page that describes what we are looking, with
instructions (see further points)
2) Require the submissions to have a certain tag at the
beginning of the subject This helps us when we seek for any
content in the mailing list archive.
3) Require the submitter to agree that we can use their
content however we want (either by licensing, or a generic
permission) We likely need the users to send this approval
with their submission on the mailing list. To do this, we
can instruct them to specify which license they want to
use, or use any kind of general permission text. At this
point, I would say we shouldn't approve content which
license or terms isn't specified (clearly enough) on the
mail.
What do you think?
At the same time, I want to remind that anybody in the team
who wishes to read the mailing list archive can simply ask
to get subscribed. The list has been very light in traffic
so far, so no extra hands are required for moderation at
this point.
Cheers, Pasi
-- Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
-- xubuntu-devel mailing list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

-- Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/ Leader
of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/ Xubuntu
Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/

- --
http://www.zleap.net
diaspora : ***@joindiaspora.com
sign up at : https://joindiaspora.com/i/29e3c17d2ef2
Torbay Tech Jam http://torbaytechjam.org.uk
Software freedom day 17th September 2016
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAleooY4ACgkQaggq1k2FJq0I8QCfcfj8DWHUCEIMZVnXQ1D1sqJ0
h0EAnA0nueg8wd+sqbDc6MqAORxnzqYX
=oAkI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Adam Eveleigh]

I realise that this is a big and wide debate, but I strongly disagree with going just with LTS unless if significant effort is put into Ubuntu Backports (as far as I know, Backports aren't frequently updated) or Xubuntu adopts Snappy (which could have hard drive size issues)

Of course, by 'adopts Snappy' I mean if the team works with Ubuntu to get more applications in the Snappy format (though I understand Ubuntu wants upstream devs to do this, hmm) and somehow makes Snappy the default format in Ubuntu Software for software which Snappy is used (Ubuntu may be doing this anyway, I don't know).

[Adam Eveleigh]

Post by PK
I have one suggestion to make: the perceived quality of the "brand" Xubuntu
can perhaps be improved when the only codebase is Ubuntu LTS and its point
releases. So no more short-lived intermediate releases. Comparable with the
release policy that Linux Mint has adopted in 2014.

I completely disagree with this. I think the current system is a great balance between those who want up-to-date software from upstream (but cohesively put together by Ubuntu and Xubuntu) and those who want to achieve stability by thoroughly testing what eventually becomes old software. Recommend LTS if you wish, but don't ditch the six-month release cycle. I try to avoid PPAs (except for software not in the repositories) for the sake of stability, but I want up-to-date software. I think sticking with interims is better than LTS+a smattering of PPAs to get stability and recent front-end software. Others will disagree, but I want this option and I think it works great for others who are willing to spend the time it takes to backup and upgrade every six months (as Ubuntu and Xubuntu work on upgrade stability, hopefully it'll become less necessary to backup each time, and then an upgrade isn't much more than a big update).

The Snappy system largely resolves this stable software vs recent software dilemma that Linux distributions suffers from, but the current system in Ubuntu does it well enough and I think just sticking with LTS alone would be a step backwards unless if Xubuntu wants to enable Ubuntu Backports as default and is willing to make the distinction between back-end and front-end software, stick to the defined distinction, and work hard with the Ubuntu Backports project to ensure that software that should be updated (like LibreOffice, GIMP, VLC - but what about Xfce software? Updating an entire desktop environment on an LTS is very bold and, if you do that, you might as well update the backend too - you might as well make a new release - yet Xfce applications are front-end ones and people will want them updated!) is updated and integrated properly to ensure stability. Alternatively, Xubuntu should somehow make Snappy the default package system for applications which use it and try to get as many front-end applications using it as possible (would probably resolve the dilemma better than LTS+interim or LTS+Backports). I'm aware that Snappy seems to take up more hard drive space than APT though, which could be a concern for Xubuntu.

Some people use Xubuntu for its stability and are happy to use older software, but some (like myself) use it more for the fact that it runs on older hardware (and maybe because it's lighter on battery and because it uses the traditional desktop metaphor, largely, and it's generally faster).

I realise that this is a big and wide debate, but I strongly disagree with going just with LTS unless if significant effort is put into Ubuntu Backports (as far as I know, Backports aren't frequently updated) or Xubuntu adopts Snappy (which could have hard drive size issues).

Regards,
Adam
(I use Xubuntu 16.10 on my RM CL 51-15, though not very often now, I admit, because I have a newer laptop with Ubuntu 16.04. Willing to test on 16.10 if there's something that needs testing though, spare hardware woop!)